When many of us think about how we can improve our golf performance, we focus on ball striking, distance, and other things surrounding the ball.
But becoming more efficient and effective at doing those things revolves around our mobility! Expert Coach Johnny Bouchard, founder of Atlanta Sports Recovery , gives us the scoop on exactly how golf and mobility intersect.
Johnny Bouchard owns & runs Atlanta Sports Recovery . He is a licensed manual therapist & coach with a clinical background in sports therapy, rehab, pain science & strength/conditioning. He specializes in a movement, mobility & manual therapy approach with a strong client education & self care component.
In this episode, we learn all about mobility:
I'm super excited for you to hear what Coach Johnny has to say. You're not going to want to miss it!
Get Coach Johnny's 30 Day Full Body Recovery Plan: click here
Read Coach Johnny's Articles: https://atlantasportsrecovery.com/articles-2/
Reach out to Coach Johnny and the team at ASR!
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Welcome to the Smart Golfer Podcast, where we help aspiring golfers improve their skills, strategy, and know how for better performance, fun, and play. I'm your host, Dr. Greta Anderson, and I am beyond excited to help you move from just hitting balls to playing your best golf. So let's get to it, folks. It's Dr. Greta. How are you today? I'm so excited. It I'm here with one of my great friends. He's been my physical savior. We'll talk about that in a little bit. But he just does amazing things to help people, athletes, everyone, feel better and do better. So I'm so excited to introduce you to Coach Johnny Bouchard. What's up, Johnny?Coach Johnny B.:
Not much, Greta. How are you?Dr. Greta:
I'm fine. So let me tell the folks all about you for when we're going to get started with our great conversation today. So Coach Johnny is a certified TPI professional. He is a licensed osteopathic, manual therapist, and rehab mobility and strength training expert. He graduated from Penn West with a double master's in sports, rehab science, and sports science. Johnny has a clinical background in sports therapy, rehab, pain science, and strength and conditioning. He's known for specializing in movement, mobility, and manual therapy for athletes. Yes, he is. So johnny. Johnny. Johnny Johnny. We could talk all day and we won't talk all day, but I'm so excited to talk to you about a bunch of things. But one thing that I don't have to tell you that you know better than most of us, but I know as a golf professional, is that mobility is a real issue for a lot of people.Coach Johnny B.:
It really is grudy, especially in the golf world, right. In America, we love to sit in America, and we get ourselves in tight, short positions and lock a bunch of things up, and then we try to go play golf and twist our bodies as hard as we can to put some force into that golf ball and make it move. And it doesn't work because we're all stuck. Yeah, as you said, I think mobility, having what we'll call regional independence at all your joints is like the foundation that you have to build the rest of your golf game on. And you as a golf pro probably know this well. If you can't move in a certain direction, it doesn't matter how much your pro is trying to get you to change something with your swing or turn your hips more, change your timing. If you can't move where you're supposed to move, you're just not going to be able to do it, and you're going to have to compensate. And that's going to create all sorts of weird things in your game, whether it be a slice, whether it be a hook, or whether it be pulling early, early extension hips, whatever it is. So mobility is super important for golf. We can't say that enough.Dr. Greta:
Yeah, mobility is kind of everything in golf. Maybe not everything but it's a whole lot of it.Coach Johnny B.:
Sorry to interrupt, but I don't think there is a movement that people do athletically that requires as much range of motion as golf does. Maybe outside, like martial arts or something like that, that would be the only area where it's like a higher mobility demand. A golf requires an incredible amount of range of motion.Dr. Greta:
That was literally, like, on my list of questions, because I was going to say, I know from again, from a teaching perspective, people are often surprised at how much mobility plays a role in golf. And so I was literally going to ask you, like, it's interesting that people golf just kind of gets a bad rap in many ways in that regard.Coach Johnny B.:
Yeah, it does. It gets a super bad rap in it. And you know why? Charles Barkley. That's why. Because people watch Charles Barkley with his little key haul, whatever that thing is that he does out there. And if they're like, if Charles could play golf, then I can. But if Charles just worked on his mobility, that handicap would drop from whatever, 30 to probably in the teens.Dr. Greta:
I'd hear it's dropping. But to your point, yes, a little bit of mobility.Coach Johnny B.:
Little bit of mobility. He could turn those hips and just use that big frame to just move that ball. Do you struggle with that? I know you pretty well, but you've managed to have in a very illustrious golf career via LPGA Pro with some mobility stuff. How do you feel like that's changed your own game?Dr. Greta:
Oh, definitely. I know enough about the motion, right. To have modified it, but it definitely affected it. I play a little bit differently. Yeah, my motion kind of evolved from kind of a two piece to a one piece to compensate for that. And I know how to make the adjustments, and it's a challenge. Okay. I would agree with you. For those of you who don't know, I've had some serious hip issues, including hip replacement number one and number two coming up.Coach Johnny B.:
I will say this, though. In spite of the hip replacement, you still have the best hip turn that I've ever seen. And for you guys that have never seen, this is a test that we do with golfers in our clinic, in the gym, too, to see if we can separate your hips from the rest of your body. And you just keep everything still in, like, a five iron posture and turn your hips. And Greta makes it look like a dance move, a beautiful dance move. And the rest of us mere mortals are sitting there, like, just looking like we're doing a bad breakdown.Dr. Greta:
Okay. He's being so modest because he's, like, pretty **** flexible, folks.Coach Johnny B.:
That's the one gift that I was born with.Dr. Greta:
And a skill. And you work on it. I mean, I know you put in the hard yards to stay super fit, and you practice what you preach. So I know that to be the case. Which brings me to this question, Johnny. What is there or what is the difference between mobility and flexibility?Coach Johnny B.:
So flexibility is being able to take your joint or your limb and put it in a position and we'll say passively, right. So I could maybe take my arm and put it up next to my ear and just hold it there. Mobility requires a strength and motor control. So a brain piece where you actually have to be able to control in that range of motion. So the way that I always give this to people is if I can give you a weight and you can pick that up and control it all the way through the whole range of motion, all the way up over your head, with no compensation, without bending your elbow, without extending at your spine, then you have mobility. But if you can passively do that, you can do it with no just putting your arm there with no load, but then we add load and it breaks, then you don't have mobility. So it's that strength and motor control. Another analogy that I love to use is there are lots of people that I can take and put on their back and move their legs into the position that they should be able to do the splits. Like they can get enough, what's called hip abduction. They can move their legs farther apart like they're a turkey being. Yeah, but then when you go to do it, they're like, I can't do the splits. Why? And that's a motor control thing. That's a mobility thing. So the difference between having the flexibility to do the splits and the mobility is that strength and motor control piece.Dr. Greta:
That is explaining a lot with this golf thing. That's explaining a lot. Yeah.Coach Johnny B.:
And there's plenty of people that I work with in the golf setting that walk in the door and they have the range of motion, the flexibility to be able to turn their body, but the second that we add speed or weight to it, they can't do it anymore. So I'll hand people a kettlebell and say, go through that same five pound kettlebell. And that's what's breaking in the golf swing, is that they just can't even control the load of their own golf club through that range.Dr. Greta:
Right. Wow. So that's kind of the secret sauce in there, if you will, for your amazing program. And I'm going to ask you to tell people about your program in a minute. The details on Johnny's super awesome program to get golfers super tight and right for the season and year round is being the Show Notes folks. So I'm going to point you to that. Okay, so let's just say a golfer comes in and she's kind of walking like the little Tin Man, but she has pretty good flexibility, if I'm using the terms correctly. But their mobility is a real struggle, but she wants to pick up some distance and she wants to really improve and get ready oftentimes. I know that people can be reticent to jump into a program or any type of improvement strategy because they think it may be super time consuming. What would be involved? Is it, hey, you need to be able to commit a couple of hours.Coach Johnny B.:
A week, or how does that work for mobility improvement? I don't think that people should be spending more than ten to 15 minutes a day on that. I think that one, your fitness and that your golf are more important than that. So we'll say that you need to have some sort of cardiovascular and strength training in your diet, so to speak. And if your mobility is making it so you can't do that, or your mobility work is keeping you from going to the range and hitting the balls that you can in the ranges of motion that you can, then I have failed you. This is a ten to 15 minutes a day adventure and usually we're seeing people within 90 days. When people come into our office, I write up on the whiteboard here's, this Venn diagram. These things are like flexibility issues. These things are capacity or strength issues. And that intersection is mobility, right? So we're going to go through, write up all our issues on here and in 90 days we'd like to have all these things cleared off the board. If you have all these things cleared off the board, then you should be able to do any golf task that you want. You should be able to hit any shot. And if you want to go out there, one, you probably have added distance, but two, if you want to go out there and start working on swing harder, creating more ground reaction force, you can do that. You have that optionality in your life. Now that was a long answer to say, 15 minutes, three to four days a week.Dr. Greta:
Very reasonable. Very reasonable. So in one episode of your favorite within one episode of your favorite Netflix show, folks, you have this done, right?Coach Johnny B.:
Easy. Yes, easy.Dr. Greta:
Okay.Coach Johnny B.:
If you go to the gym too, a lot of the stuff is a good way to prepare for whatever you're doing that day. So we always get the question, how should I warm up all those things? And if you're using our programming or using my programming, you would just put that as the beginning of your workout. 1st 15 minutes of the day, I'm going to do this, and then afterwards I'm going to go do my peloton or whatever my jam is.Dr. Greta:
Got you now. I'm so glad. Again, for those of you who may not know it, but just becoming familiar with Coach Johnny and Atlanta Sports recovery team, they are just an amazing group. I cannot speak highly enough of them, but here's a little known. It's not a little known secret, but I look forward to your Sunday emails because I learn so much every week. So a couple of weeks every week. I'm like, there's just great stuff in there from why my feet are so tight and what I need to do to get them looser to was it a week or two ago you were talking about riding the peloton and that type of thing? And golfers come from a variety of backgrounds, just like everyone else. But I do know that a lot of golfers have somewhat sedentary lifestyles. It just kind of happens that way. A lot of sitting, a lot of affluent workers, smart people sit, but sit at a desk a little bit too much. And so that little kind of crunch that you talked about is so commonplace. So I didn't ask you this in advance, but can you kind of I guess what I'm trying to get to is just even right now, just one or two basic things that everyone could do to help improve that mobility, because everyone wants to get better at whatever they do. And golfers, certainly you want to get better. And I'm just trying to think of if you're the expert, there's just one or two basics that everyone needs to know and can do to help themselves on a daily basis.Coach Johnny B.:
So one thing is standing up and walking, right? My background, I come from the CrossFit world. I love CrossFit. It's been a part of my life for a long time. But that is the pinnacle of intensity of human movement that people need to do on a daily basis. We should all be getting those 10,000 steps in, so that's roughly three to 4 miles, depending on your stride length of walking. But getting up and spending that much time being upright in a good standing position, walking around, will do so much of the damage that we do by sitting all day long. And that is a necessary evil in our society. To be able to operate for most jobs is to be death bound. And that is what it is. The other thing that I'm going to say that most people are not doing is squatting. And not squatting with weights, not squatting with fast or whatever, but getting in the bottom of a squat position and being able to hold that. So the most common things that we see with people are really tight, stiff, short ankles and then tight, short, stiff hips. And squatting requires you to have your hips rotate, the bones rotate, not actually like turn in a circle, but it requires your ankles to flex. And then when you stand up, it requires full hip extension and Glute recruitment. So for that lower half of our body, the things that we do all the time, it really does help undo it. And I always throw this out there as a challenge when you can get in the bottom, and I mean, like as the grass down there in a squat.Dr. Greta:
Low, low, low, low. Right?Coach Johnny B.:
Low, low, low, low. Exactly. And you can hold that for five minutes. Your life will be changed. You will not have a lot of the low back things that we do. And I'm going to add a bonus one in there because the other piece of this is kind of what goes on with the upper back. So if you can get in hanging position, you don't have to do pull ups. But if you can get on some sort of thing where you're putting your arms up over your head and just hanging there for even 30 seconds a day just to get all of that tissue kind of pull back in the other direction, that would be it. So if you could do those three things, walk, squat, and hang, I think your life would be 10,000 times better.Dr. Greta:
Walk, squat, and hang. Okay, so I'm thinking about that squatting. So for for everyone, because I've seen yeah, I mean, I know you see it. I'm sure you, you have, you know, an educated mind, an educated eye. So I'm sure when you're walking around the world, you're going, lord have mercy. When you see a lot of people, it's scary for okay, folks, so we hear that we got to walk, we got to squat, and we got to hang. And so again, we're going to hook you up with ways to get more information and insight from Coach Johnny and his amazing team at Atlanta Sports Recovery. Okay, so we are talked about. We're getting all educated here. We know the difference between flexibility and mobility. We know what we need to do in terms of making ourselves better every day. So here's a question. I think I know the answer to this, but how would you say let me rephrase this. You work with tons of athletes of all stripes, but with golfers, I'm always curious to learn things. Do you find that are there potential limits based on their physicality, in other words? I mean, we know that there's some strength things, but there are some people some some people think or and again, I'm coming from things from the perspective of being on the lesson. T that because of size, height, weight. Whatever the case may be, that there are real limits on what they're able to do with the golf club. Would you say that that thought process is often hindered because of some of these issues? More so than actual skill set? Because a lot of times when I'm seeing things, that is certainly the case. So you're coming from the other side of the equation. I'm curious what you see.Coach Johnny B.:
I don't love to give people excuses for anything. So when we start saying that there is an anatomical or genetic limitation to what somebody can do, I feel like that's an immediate punt. Like we're punting on third down, so to speak. So I will always be really honest with somebody if they have, we'll say, a genetic gift in which their parents have given them a femur that is longer than their tibia, so the upper leg is longer than the lower leg. There's going to be some things that it's going to make it harder for you to do or different, but that doesn't mean you can't and that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. But what we should do is try to find more optimal ways for you to do things. But our humans are incredibly resilient. We are incredibly adaptable, and we don't really challenge those things. A lot of times we get, hey, it hurts when I do this, so that means it's bad, I'm not going to do it. I can't get in this position, so I'm not going to try to do what my golf coach Greta is telling me to do or my golf pro is telling me to do. I instead am just going to keep selecting to do this behavior, which isn't getting me the result I want because it doesn't feel as uncomfortable. And I think that it's a hard lesson. It's not a fun lesson to be that honest with yourself, to be like, you know what? I'm not saying it's not I can't. I'm saying I won't. And that is where I see a lot of hindrance with people, is they're like, I can't do this. And I sit there in my office and I think to myself, no, you won't do this. There are ways we can get you there. We can get anybody anywhere they want to go. I mean, I've worked with people that have spinal bifida and they don't have the use of their lower half, their body and they are dead set on playing golf, like they're going to play golf and they are going to make it happen and it's going to mean a long, hard road of work and adaptation to get them there. But they're going to do it, and they do it because they have that mindset. So I think it's a mindset thing, right?Dr. Greta:
It's a mindset thing. It's deciding what we want to do. And there's a fine line, right? And again, I know you can speak to this between pain and discomfort, right? There are some things that we shouldn't I don't like the word should, but we can safely tolerate, and there are sometimes we shouldn't. But in many instances, it's the lack of an intense desire to achieve the goal, right?Coach Johnny B.:
That happens.Coach Johnny B.:
Yeah. So it's the mind and body that we're always talking about here on the Smart Golfer podcast, folks. We put them together. But the great news is that when we make the decision to do that, we have the tools to really liberate ourselves from those limitation, those limiting beliefs to move forward and do great things. Whether that's moving from the nine to the 18 hole league, playing your first nine whole round, winning your first tournament, placing your first tournament, whatever the case may be, the opportunity is there. And so that's what's always exciting to me, the opportunities that are in front of us. And so now we know that with a little work on the body, the physical, we can achieve that. And we know that it doesn't have to take all day. So no more excuses, right? We know that with the right programming and plan, we can get this done efficiently. So now is the perfect time. We're here. We're recording this in January. You can be game on, ready for the 2023 season. So this is where we get to talk about exactly how you can be game ready if you don't want to try to figure this out on your own. And I know as I was introducing Johnny, I mentioned he is a TPI certified professional. So a lot of our listeners may know about TPI Johnny, but some of them may not be very well versed in that. So could you explain what TPI certification is all about and what that means in terms of your expertise as it relates to golf?Coach Johnny B.:
Yeah, absolutely. So TPI, if you don't know what that organization is, it's a Thailand professional institute. I like to think that they are the research and development for golf at this point. I don't know if there's anybody else doing it on this high of a level, but there is billions of dollars invested into a facility out in Arizona, and they have the smartest minds in sports, science, medicine and performance. Working together to figure out as much things as they can about the game of golf and how to improve golfers performance and reduce pain, too. From the medicine side. So TPI being a TPI certified professional means that we all are going to look for some common characteristics in your swing and then screen you to see if they correlate with any of those mobility or capacity demands or lack of mobility or capacity that I was speaking with you earlier. And it is a process that requires a bunch of studying and going to a live course and being checked out by the TPI staff to make sure that you understand how a golfer is supposed to move. You understand the characteristics of a golf swing that are good and the ones that can lend themselves to hooks and slices and topping the ball and all those things. And then also how to improve them, how to screen out and then optimize that. So it's a very cool process and a very good way of being able to help golfers improve their game.Dr. Greta:
Absolutely. So the great news is that working through that process with a professional in that area, like Coach Johnny, will definitely help you improve your game, but it also just improve the quality of your life, right? Help you with your mobility. And so with that, you have a great offering program built specifically around getting better for golf. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Because I want people to reach out to you because I think a lot of people are going to need your help there.Coach Johnny B.:
Yeah, I call it the Golf Performance Recovery Program or Mobility program. So the process works like this. She come in, we do an assessment with you. I put you through the swing portion. We put you through the mobility capacity screen to see if we can find anything that we can lend to optimize your game with. And at the same time, I'm also going to use the kind of medical part of my brain, if you're rolling in the door with pain, to kind of screen out any underlying causation of that. So I always like to tell people, if you walk in the door and you can't turn your hips all the way through the swing to create power, but you're also having low back pain and that correlates to a Herniated disc. The right move for you is definitely working on those things, but we need to do it in a completely different way than going after performance. So you're going to get that information as well. So, hey, I'm having low back pain when I turn, but it's related medical cause that we need to get fixed before we go for the whole performance thing. So go through this process, we look at your swing, we do the assessment, and if we get to the end of it and you're perfect and I can't help you, then that's just Greta. That's just Dr. Greta. You're going to have to go work with a swing coach and I will charge you no money and I will send you on your way. But that has never happened one single time. And I have worked with people that are touring professionals. They even have holes that we can work on. So we get done with that. We talk about the results. And then we're going to do a program, a 90 day program with you that's written specifically for you. I'm going to educate you on all the movements that you need to do. If there's any things, bands or balls or anything that you need to buy, I'm going to show you where to get that on Amazon for a great deal. And then I'm going to deliver this custom program to you through a digital app called TrueCoach, which is great. It shows you demo videos. I put in all these notes and sets and you just follow along. And it's great because it's a two way communication platform too. So I can see if you're logging in every day. If you're having some consistency issues, I have no problem giving you a friendly text reminder phone call. And then the other side of that two way communication platform is I'm asking you to take videos of yourself once a week, post them in there so I can do some analysis to make sure that we're progressing. And then the programs are designed to progressively move you over the course of three months where you come back at the end of the three months, we write all those things back up on the whiteboard and we retest you and ideally, you have a clear whiteboard. And then we can look at your swing and say, like, hey, before you were going over the top every time and it was causing a slice, or your hips were early extending and we've gotten rid of that and now your power and distance should be better as well. And it's a really cool way of being able to quantify in a golf setting. Hey, I did this program, I spent 90 days working on myself, and not only am I able to bend over, touch my toes without low back pain now, but I'm also getting this spot where my golf game is better. And the other thing I'll add, so if you're a person that likes, like, the tactile in person thing, I also have an option for that. So I try to give everybody, again, no excuses to get better. 15 minutes a day is all you need to do for the program, and it's done digitally so you don't have to go anywhere. This should be all things that you can do in your home or at your gym, wherever you work out very easily. But if you're that person, I also offer an option where we can come in and do things together.Dr. Greta:
Awesome. And for our ladies that are giving consideration or already in our upcoming cohort of the goal Getter golf program, the program with Coach Johnny is built in, so you're already covered there, but so for the other people, this is really worth your while and for so many reasons. So many reasons. And I'm not just saying that. What was the commercial? I forget back in the day, that was the suit guy, right? He was like, I'm not just a salesman, I'm the client. Right. It's the same thing. I've been a longtime client of Johnny and his team, and I know that they're the real deal. Folks, mobility matters. So much flexibility, strength, just being able to move, right? We just want to be able to move. We want to feel good. What's your line? I love how you speak about when you're so succinct in saying that you fix broken humans, right? You fix it.Coach Johnny B.:
Yeah, that's what I do. We put you back together again.Dr. Greta:
Yeah. So I'm telling you what, I've learned a lot here and I think I'm thankful to you. Thanks for being here. I know you're so busy and we all have so many things going on, but I really do appreciate you breaking it down for us. How this so improved mobility really is the crux of the things. When we want to get better as a golfer, it's going to help us. To feel better, right? Play better and we're going to do better, right? Did I miss anything?Coach Johnny B.:
No, you didn't miss anything at all there. I thought that was really well said and I'm just going to reiterate that point. Like if you can't move in a range then you're going to compensate and make changes that are unnatural. And you know what, you get a little pass like your golf game is bad and it ain't your fault. You just need to fix your mobility and once you do, then it's all on you. But until then you just got to get your ability to move right and then everything else will tend to fall in line or at least you can have all the options there.Dr. Greta:
Excellent. So real quick, we're done. It doesn't have to be real quick. I don't know why I say that. But let the people know how to find you because again, I want everybody to be able to find you. It'll be in the show notes but please do share for those who may be driving along or listening as they take a walk, as we know we need to do and they want to reach out to you.Coach Johnny B.:
So though I have two Instagram platforms I've got at Coach underscore Johnny B and then at Atlantisportsrecovery, which is my business, my practice that I own. And then Atlantisportsrecovery.com is where most of my content stuff is going online. And then you can also check out the Atlantisports Recovery YouTube. I'm constantly posting videos, exercises that you can do and if you want to get every Sunday I send out an email to everybody who's ever been in my contact list of just helpful tips of things you can do to optimize your performance or life better. If you want to get on that email list, there's a way to go on Atlantisporesrecovery.com and sign up for that too. And you can at least kind of get some inside look at some of the goods that we are delivering in the office.Dr. Greta:
They are such great reads, they are so informative and your skills as a scientist and a research and a fitness professional are evident. But I love them because when I'm reading them and of course I've spent a lot of time with you and talking to you, it's totally like talking to you folks, it's just like talking to you because I'm like I hear your voice in them so they are authentic. You're writing those, I can tell you take a lot of time but I go this is totally Johnny.Coach Johnny B.:
I think my wife sort of hates it sometimes because I'm not really good at writing in a more intelligent way than I speak. But I'm not going to burden you with technical jargon. Most of the time in my emails I write them in a way that are understandable. So I take actually a lot of pride, as Einstein says, keeping everything as simple as you possibly can, as well.Dr. Greta:
You should, because right. A lot of that is that's one of the things that I think as an expert in an area, I feel like that's the reason that people come to me, like, hey, if you wanted to understand all these things about deeplane and the intricacies of the golf motion, maybe you would have gone to study for years, study the swing for years. But you want to swing well and understand some things about it, but you're going to leave all the details to me. So it's kind of the same thing in your area. Like, I want to know and know enough to take action on what you're asking me to do or suggesting that I do to get better, but I want to leave all the details to the expert. So it's the same thing. So that's what when I read it, I read them, I'm like, this is so Johnny. But I'm learning Tons. I mean, I love them. I really do.Sunday about 01:
00, they usually pop into my box and I'm right there to read them. So folks do join the list and take part in that. So Johnny, thank you so much.Coach Johnny B.:
Thank you, Greta. I'm so excited to have been able to be on the podcast with you.Dr. Greta:
Yes, well, we're going to have you back because there are other things to talk about and we just won't do it all at once. But thank you so much for being here and thank you, listeners, for checking us out. Again, please be sure to check out all the details in the show notes, and in the meantime, keep swinging and we will see you soon. Bye for now. Thanks so much for joining us this week on the Smart Golfer podcast. Make sure you visit our email@example.com, where you can subscribe to the show using your preferred podcast platform so you'll never miss a show. And while you're at it, if you found value in this show, we'd appreciate a rating on that platform. Or if you'd simply like to tell a friend about the show, that could help us out too. And if you like this show, you might want to check out more of our learning programs at Academy drgretagoff.com.