What was your primary reason for getting interested and/or involved in golf?
Did you do get into golf via invitation from a friend or colleague?
Or, did you jump in on your own?
In this episode, I'm chatting with Larissa Holmes, co-founder and CEO of Coterie - an organization aimed to disrupt the old boys club by providing a digital platform for women to learn and connected through sport & activities.
We discuss some interesting issues that shape golf and sport in many ways:
Learn more about Coterie at https://www.activecoterie.com/
Get on the waitlist and be the FIRST to know when we reopen. You'll get strategies, tools, and support from our friendly community to make your dreams of confidently playing fun, strategic golf anywhere with anyone come true.
Links & Resources:
*Disclosure: I may recommend products that I have used and love; all opinions expressed here are my own. This post may contain affiliate links that at no additional cost to you, I may earn a small commission.
What was your primary reason for getting interested and/or involved in golf?
Did you do get into golf via invitation from a friend or colleague?
Or, did you jump in on your own?
In this episode, I'm chatting with Larissa Holmes, co-founder and CEO of Coterie - an organization aimed to disrupt the old boys club by providing a digital platform for women to learn and connected through sport & activities.
We discuss some interesting issues that shape golf and sport in many ways:
Learn more about Coterie at https://www.activecoterie.com/
Get on the waitlist and be the FIRST to know when we reopen. You'll get strategies, tools, and support from our friendly community to make your dreams of confidently playing fun, strategic golf anywhere with anyone come true.
Links & Resources:
*Disclosure: I may recommend products that I have used and love; all opinions expressed here are my own. This post may contain affiliate links that at no additional cost to you, I may earn a small commission.
Welcome to the Smart Golfer podcast, where we help aspiring golfers improve their skills, strategy, and know how for better performance, fun and play. I'm your host, Dr. Greta Anderson, and I am beyond excited to help you move from just hitting balls to playing your best golf. So let's get to it. Dr. Greta so excited today here on the Smart Golfer podcast, we are going to listen in on an amazing conversation that I had not so long ago with a good friend of the show and with Dr. Greta golf and all things golf and women's sport particularly. Her name is Larissa Holmes and you want to talk about an awesome woman, let's just start off here. She was an executive at Canada's largest fintech and was also a former management consultant at Deloitte. Now today, right now, though, Larissa has changed her focus and she is now the co founder and CEO of Kotary, a platform aimed to disrupt the old boys club by providing a digital platform for women to learn and connect through sport and activities. She is just so passionate about bringing the social and economic opportunities to women globally. So I am excited to get in on this conversation. Let's go. I'm so excited to have, I guess here today, Larissa Homes, as we mentioned in the opening. Hi Larissa. Hi.
Larissa:I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Greta:Great to have you. So you've done and you continue to do amazing things, but I like to always ask people, tell me about your golf journey. Let's just start there.
Larissa:Yeah, so I've had an interesting golf journey. I didn't grow up playing sport. I didn't actually pick up a golf club until my late, mid to late twenty s. I was a management consultant at Deloitte and it was there that I realized the role that sport can kind of play in your professional life. And I found it really hard to get started as somebody who was really focused on my career and very used to being good at things. It's hard to stretch yourself outside your comfort zone and golf can be very challenging, a sport that requires a lot of patience, which is also not a strength of mine. And so I really picked up the sport to help my career and to really get into it from that sense. And then, like a lot of women, I played through for a while and then I had kids and really focused on my career and found it really hard, both especially from a time perspective, to play golf. So didn't get out much and have kind of just started coming back to the sport and realizing what a role it can play and kind of building friendships and building community.
Dr. Greta:Yeah, it is an amazing sport in that you mentioned your journey there, obviously. But one of the things I always like to mention or encourage people, particularly women with is that golf will wait for you and that's one of the beautiful things about it, whether career or having children and, you know, obviously prioritizing family, golf will be right there for you. That's the beautiful thing about it. It's interesting you exude many of the characteristics that I find in high achieving women who come to golf. You don't consider yourself to be patient, but I bet you're more patient than you are. You have children, you build a great career. You probably have a little bit more patience in there than you're thinking. But I am curious to get more insight on how you got to be comfortable with the fact that, hey, you're an awesome and an expert in so many areas, but golf is maybe not one of those areas.
Larissa:Not one of them. Definitely not one.
Dr. Greta:Of those things. Did you have to arrive at that point or space or how did that go?
Larissa:Yeah, I think for me it has been quite a journey. I really like stretching myself outside my comfort zone. I think as much as I find golf very challenging, that's part of the push pole. I feel like it's part of something that also draws me to the sport. I like to challenge myself. I also think sport and we can talk a little bit about Kotary in a couple of minutes, but it really was the kind of thesis around building this business which was, sport is such an equalizer. I get so excited about the opportunities outside of just the sport itself and how it really can bring people together. And especially in a world like today, where we're so divided between politics and religion and so many other issues that are going on, I think there's a lot of great data out there that shows when you know somebody that's part of a diverse community or a community you don't belong to. And you get to know them first outside of the issues. And then you come together and you realize those issues maybe aren't as big, or you're more open minded to hearing somebody else's perspective. And sport is a great way to do that. It's a great way to get out there. You're focused on the game, you're not maybe focused on these other issues and you realize you're meeting somebody and chatting with somebody you might not have normally engaged with. And so I think it really has such a massive potential beyond just the sport. And often, unfortunately, women exclude themselves from those opportunities because of all the insecurities. And I really want to get more women to just say yes.
Dr. Greta:And that is why I'm so excited about all that you're doing because it's just saying yes, extending the invitation and coming on in. I mean, it's a really big deal, particularly for the ladies. And I'm 100% with you. When you get to know people at a one on one level, you meet them out on the golf course or on the driving range or wherever the case may be, you have no idea of your differences. Right. And they really don't matter. I found that to be the case over the years. Very interesting. You meet amazing people and months or weeks or whatever the case may be, later, maybe I'm in the clubhouse and I see something different, and then I realize, oh, we're probably pretty different in that regard, but I'm already liking you. Right. Your politics may not be mine, but that's okay. Cool guy. We played golf together.
Larissa:We've had fun.
Dr. Greta:We found our thread of commonality. And golf is so powerful in sport. As you said, that's the case. So that is a wonderful thing. I want to talk a great deal about Kotary in just a minute, but if you had to, what are your thoughts on why jumping in may be so difficult for women?
Larissa:It's a great question and something I think a lot about and our user research and just kind of thinking through the company, I've heard a lot from different women about why, and I think there's so many different kinds of systemic issues. Golf is entrenched in history, as you know. There's a lot of etiquette, there's a lot of tradition around the sport. And I think predominantly, it's been a pretty exclusive sport. Predominantly, a lot of the perception is that it's a very white male sport, and I think it can be intimidating for a lot of women. And we all have heard about imposter syndrome professionally, and I think that extends beyond profession. And I think a lot of women are worried about how to even show up. You know, women don't want to look like they are somewhere they don't belong. And that's really, I think, a key element is laying a strong foundation to empower women in the ways that they can control, even outside of the actual technical aspects of golf, but making sure they know where to go. When they get to a golf course, what to wear, how to show up in a way that gives them that baseline of confidence, so that when they get out on the course, some of that pressure is alleviated as they tee off and as they're at on the first screen and as those first couple shots are happening, that they feel like they know enough of the rules, the etiquette, they have some of those foundation elements that give them that courage and confidence to get out.
Dr. Greta:Agreed. Yeah, I think, well, I have observed as a professional, the differences in the amount of information and the type of information that women require as compared and generally speaking, as compared to the gentleman in terms of their comfort level getting out on the course. There is a chasm, I mean, it is huge, generally speaking, a club and a couple of golf balls and go like, hey, we just want to go out there and try to just see that flag we're trying to hit. It the guy's like, okay, I'll make it work. And ladies are like, okay, I need to understand the rule. So we want to know the details. I want to look foolish. We don't want to be in violation of the rule. We just are, generally speaking, wired a bit differently and so it is making information a bit more accessible. One of my concerns is always accuracy right. And information. Yeah, just available, accurate and friendly so that the game seems approachable, so that type of thing.
Larissa:Yeah. And you hit on a really important point, I think, with that friendly and approachable piece, because I think that's really what is often kind of missing in the market is that right now, sport really is set up for how men want to play and how men want to learn. And women are different. Not all women, of course, we're not a monolith, but a lot of women want to play for very social, fun reasons. It isn't always a super competitive game. They want to get out there, they want to play nine holes, they want to meet new people, they want to be part of the conversation. You know, golf courses are beautiful. Who wouldn't want to kind of be out in nature and beautiful places? And I think there's a huge gap out there for redefining it for women.
Dr. Greta:I would agree. I often really try to be intentional about those little things in conversation. For example, if you're talking to a group of women and they say, well, we only want to play nine holes, or whoa, nine holes is a round of golf, right? It's a great round of golf.
Larissa:Yeah.
Dr. Greta:18 is not this defining benchmark. It doesn't mean that you've suddenly become a golfer because you have a 18 holes.
Larissa:Those little things.
Dr. Greta:I was just out giving a playing lesson a couple of days ago, and it was a mixed group, and someone said, well, I guess we're going to play from the ladies t. And I was in a cart and I just.
Larissa:Move forward. Language matters.
Dr. Greta:It matters. And that one's a hot button for me.
Larissa:So that's a tip.
Dr. Greta:Don't use that phrase around me. I don't like it.
Larissa:Yeah.
Dr. Greta:I mean, frankly speaking, from that forward teeth and play from there.
Larissa:Totally agree with that.
Dr. Greta:That's where a lot of it comes from, right?
Larissa:Yeah. And I think it's that confidence. If we could just bottle up some of that confidence and spread it around to more ladies, it would be great. And I think, honestly, some of it is really just a confidence game. And Coder wants to help give women that confidence to just get out there and just try.
Dr. Greta:So you just mentioned Koteri, so that is your amazing organization. Can you tell us all about it?
Larissa:Sure. Yeah. So Coder is really on a mission to connect women, and how we want to do that is one sport and one opportunity at a time, as I kind of touched on. We believe that sport is just a great way to connect and we really want to redefine the women's recreational sports space and we want to create space for women to play, though in a way that works for them. And what that means is just getting out and playing, that there doesn't have to be this idea of how to play and what to do. And so we're launching a platform to help women to do that and we believe the key way of doing that is through education. So we have a content platform which is amazing that you're one of our amazing content creators and instructors on the platform and we're so excited to have you and have your accurate lessons on the platform so we can make sure to inform women in a way that is true. And we believe that setting that foundation, it's not just for women who want to learn how to play, for anyone who really has like that growth mindset and really wants to focus on improving their game, getting out there and realizing you can always brush up on different tips. But it's really at the heart of Codery is really focused on building a community, a community for women to come and share and talk about something that isn't to do with just their career kids. We believe women have hobbies, have interests and that's really the space that Codery wants to play and wants to empower women and get more women connected to other women who have these common interests.
Dr. Greta:Yeah, it's amazing. I'm so excited about being on Code, being on the platform and being part of the team in that regard. So thank you for that opportunity. And I just am sitting here listening to you very closely because as a sports woman, I love sport. I love sports of all types. I love the ones I'm really good at and I love the ones that I kind of suck at. I just love sport. Yeah, right. And one of the reasons I can really enjoy and embrace sports that I'm not particularly gifted in is because I understand the power of sport right, right away from just learning and growing in that regard. But I feel very fortunate in that. However, I stumbled upon that at a very young age. I did. And I want that so badly for so many women because I just I probably am biased because I am such a sports sports gal. It's a powerful tool, whether from a fitness perspective perspective, a mental wellness and health perspective, business, relationships, networking, and I don't have to choose one, but if I had to choose one or two of those really powerful benefits of sport, I would have to say that networking relationships, whether business or personal, is huge.
Larissa:Yeah, I completely agree with that. And I think again, that's where Codery wants to help women do that, you can have something to connect about. Right. I think a lot of women struggle with the word networking is another one of those words that I think to a lot of women sounds like a bit of a dirty word. Oh, I'm networking. I'm trying to get something out of the relationship. I think women need to kind of embrace this more, that men are very comfortable networking, transacting, and it doesn't necessarily just mean financial, but I do think there's a lot of economic benefits to women as they embrace kind of the sport world more. Even if they're just out and they're playing and having fun, you hear conversations. You know, we all know that people have gotten their kids into college on the golf course. There's real estate transactions, there's investment opportunities. Being in a space where you hear these types of conversations, you naturally learn, number one. And number two, you make connections that you never know where things might go. And I think there's a lot of power to that, both socially and economically, that women need to tap into more.
Dr. Greta:Absolutely. Now, you mentioned how you began you began your golf journey. You were having a very successful career with Deloitte, correct?
Larissa:Yeah, I was management consultant there.
Dr. Greta:Sure. You saw very clearly, right, the golf and business and that we're going to go kind of right together. And I have been witnessed to that many I've participated in that, and I've been witnessed to it many, many times. I tell you, I can't make this stuff up. I mean, I've literally seen from the first, hello, nice to meet you, to 18th.
Larissa:Yeah, there's a deal made by the time you're yeah, there's a deal by the time the round is over.
Dr. Greta:Did that just happen?
Larissa:Yeah, there's a ton that happens, and I think I definitely thought more in my corporate life before I moved into tech, but it doesn't play as much of a role, I think, in the tech world from a professional perspective, but in the corporate world and in professional services like management, consulting, lawyers, there's just so many careers. I think in healthcare, especially, golf plays a huge role, but I think there's lots of other sports that are starting to get a lot of traction as well. And at Codery, we're launching the platform with golf and pickleball. I think there's a surprising number of overlaps between the two sports as well, and I think that sport is playing more and more of a role in a lot of different professions, and I think a lot of sport in general, people are starting to do them as team building activities. You're starting to do them as corporate events. And I think golf has always had a huge role in professional life. So I think it's pretty natural that whether it's for social reasons or professional reasons, I think there's lots of great reasons to encourage women to get out and play.
Dr. Greta:Absolutely. I'm excited about the pickleball, but I've got to tell you because it's one of my goals for 2023 is to get my Pickleball game in good order.
Larissa:Well, you're also a tennis player, so it'll be great for you. Yeah.
Dr. Greta:There'S a little bit of a civil war going on this racket sports thing.
Larissa:Yes.
Dr. Greta:It'S amazing and fun and the rate at which is taken off is just amazing to me. And I know just so many golfers that are in love with they're very good friends, very closely tied.
Larissa:That's what I was going to say. There's a lot of overlap.
Dr. Greta:Right.
Larissa:Short game is important in both of them. There's a lot of like body positioning, footwork for Pickleball, but you're positioning for golf. There's just there's a lot of strong overlaps that I think a lot of golfers are starting to pick it up. And I also think there's a lot that's really great that I think kind of both sports can learn from each other about accessibility. I think pickleball is very accessible, whereas golf has a perception that it's not. But I hope that there's some positive crossover between the two sport, too, and getting more people to kind of consider trying either sport.
Dr. Greta:Yes. With golf, that accessibility has historically been an issue. And one of the things I think that excites me is the increasingly diverse ways in which people are getting into golf, the top golf putt shacks and all those types of things. People into the game and then hopefully kind of transitioning over to the green grass and if not, that's okay. But when I walk into some of the places, for example, like a top golf, I love it. I love when I see people who would go like, I have never picked up a golf club in my life and never thought I would, but here I am and they find out that it's quite fun. Maybe that is where they that's fine, they're swinging and they're having fun and it's changing their perception of the game because we know, or I feel at least I shouldn't speak for other people, that is going to be one person at a time and it's going to take a diversity of perspective to change the overall perception. And perhaps some of the facts about the sport in terms of its accessibility. His friendliness is approachability because it's accessibility, but it's approachable. A lot of courses are public and wide, but people don't feel as if they can easily approach it.
Larissa:Yeah, I think that that's a great point. And there's lots of great places. I think you see in all the time in New York City, the different condos that are popping up have golf simulators in them now. There's tons of simulator bars that are kind of creating this more friendly approachable environment where people can have some food, grab a drink and play at a simulator, which is again, phenomenal, I think, to see all those things pop up. I think something else that we're really interested about coterie is also the role that the metaverse plays in golf. I think there's a lot of strong overlaps when you kind of think about Web Three and the metaverse being a great place, especially for women and underrepresented groups, because there's a feeling of it's a safer space to practice, so to speak. Right. You can kind of practice those same skills, those same body movements, drills, things that will help you when you're on an actual green, but it's in a virtual environment. And so I think that there's a lot of potential there for us to leverage the metaverse as being a safe place to practice and to kind of get out and grow some of those, especially more at the beginner phase for golfers.
Dr. Greta:Right, absolutely. Because as an instructor, I often tell people in my lesson to that I have the balls here. Really? Because you want the golf balls, because I'm helping you learn the motion. Right. And particularly in those early stages, it's about the movement. The ball is just an outcome to a process, and we're learning the process. Right, and so when you mentioned the metaverse there yeah, actually, I hate to say this in many ways, for many people, it's going to be a more efficient way to learn.
Larissa:Right? Yeah.
Dr. Greta:And just a different look. I mean, golf is a sport rooted in great tradition, and I think some things are going to get shaken up a bit, and that's pretty exciting to me. So that's one of those things there.
Larissa:Yeah, I agree. And I think that there's lots of room for things to change. And change isn't always bad.
Dr. Greta:No, change is always a good thing. Change can often be quite uncomfortable, and I think this will be an uncomfortable journey for some. And that's okay. That's growth. Right. I don't know that all growth can be has phases of uncomfortableness. Right. It happens.
Larissa:Right? Yeah.
Dr. Greta:We're here for it, as they say.
Larissa:Yeah.
Dr. Greta:So let me ask you this. I always love to ask these questions, these types of questions. If you could change one or two big things about golf as we know it right now, what would they be?
Larissa:That's a tough one. I would want men to be as much part of this conversation as women. I think I would want to kind of educate and inform men. I think that getting more women in diverse communities out golfing is good for everyone. And this really isn't just a conversation for women. I think, unfortunately, part of that is my own experience. It happens all the time when I'm on the golf course. I was out with my team a couple of weeks ago, and we still had a negative experience with the threesome behind us saying, hurry up, let us play through. And meanwhile, there's two groups ahead of us waiting at the next tee. We weren't being slow at all, but there's a perception. I still think there is a lot of perception that women are slow and that they're going to hold things up. I think pace of play is one of the most important rules, and anyone who's played more than once or twice knows knows to kind of keep pace, and it's about having fun. And so I do think men need to be part of the conversation. So I would change a lot of these conversations from between women to being more outward facing and have men part of it. So I think that's a key one for me.
Dr. Greta:Yeah, I would agree with that. I've played a lot of golf and play a lot of golf around golf all the time. And I find that to be enraging for me because not in all cases, to be clear, when there's a backup on the course or something, the default is to identify the two foursomes comprised of women. This was a couple of years ago, but it was a beautiful Sunday. Never forget this. We're out, we're having a great time. I'm playing with three other professionals. We're pretty good golfers. We're moving in the middle of the fairway. I remember we were on a par five and I'm kind of staying. I'm leaning on my five wood. We're chatting it up. Scarp pulls up and asks us to keep it moving. We're going like, what are you yeah, well, the gentleman, you're taking their word for it, but that happens too often, right? Or the other one is you get thrown in with a group and then someone I think they mean it as a compliment and they say, oh, you can really play.
Larissa:Right.
Dr. Greta:But it's an insult to women of color. Whatever the case may be, we've got a reality and set some I think that we're doing that. I think that it's one of those things where you can wait for it to happen or we can start the party and I think we're starting to party.
Larissa:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a big one. And I think the other thing I would change is I try to get out there and talk as much as I can about, you know, you don't need to own clubs, you don't need to kind of have all these things just get out and say yes. Getting more women out is a big thing for me, I think. Just getting more women out and realizing they can have fun. Nine times out of ten, when I bring another woman out to play for the first time at the end, you know, nine holes are like, that was more fun than I thought it was going to be. The common phrase I hear because I think there's just so much concern. It's like a lot of women want to try it, but have worries about what it's going to actually be like. But I think getting more women out there and actually just saying yes and having more fun would be the other thing. Encouraging women to just say yes when they have an opportunity to play yes.
Dr. Greta:Oftentimes I've observed that many women. Again, it's just an expectation that everyone out on the golf course is so much better and so far more prepared than they are. I was teaching at a different club, but what I would do is I would have the ladies hop onto golf carts and we kind of scurry around. I take them over to the back nine, and there was this big, huge, beautiful willow tree, and it's kind of hard to but it was kind of like this perch, but you could kind of like, park in a little arch. There all the golf carts, and just watch, like, three holes, and within ten minutes, the ladies be like, oh, my. God, they're so bad. They're not good.
Larissa:Yeah.
Dr. Greta:Correct. But that's not the importance. The important point is a lot of this, right, smiles on their faces. They're having fun, they're networking, they're enjoying the moment. It's golf. I always like to say very candidly, if you're handing over a credit card to do anything in golf, all you need to worry about is having fun. Now, if the transaction is going the other way, maybe it's something different. Chances are good, then there's a TV camera in front of your face. That's maybe a different thing before the rest. Have fun. Enjoy it, use it. Exercise, health, wellness, business development, friendships, all of the great. There's so many great things that the sport provides for us, because it's just one of those rare birds that we can enjoy throughout life. Do your children play? I know. Do your children play golf?
Larissa:My children are still quite young. I've got five, three and six months. But we have put a club and we have kind of gotten an early for fun starter set for our oldest daughter and getting her to play, because, as I mentioned, I didn't grow up with sports. So for me, I'm very passionate kind of getting them to just try it, just have the feel of the club in their hand. It's not about right now. I think at this age, for kids, it's so important that they just have fun, you know, that they don't see it as pressure or anything else. They kind of whack the club and the balls around in the backyard, and we just have fun and let them do that.
Dr. Greta:That's great. And I love when I see on the golf courses of the world, I just love how golf allows for multiple generations of family to play together. When it's four generations, you go like, now, can't do that in basketball. You can't do that in basketball.
Larissa:Yeah.
Dr. Greta:Other sports, that type of thing. Marathon racing and that type of thing. But golf really affords that.
Larissa:You know, you really hit on that. And I think there's something so magical about its ability to kind of create relationships and create community. Right. You actually. Have a sport where you're doing something, but you also have a chance to connect and you can talk as much or as little as you want. And so there's something really magical. And I think especially as women, when we get older, those social relationships become more and more important and that's what Coder really wants to help with. It's hard to find friends as you get older and into adulthood. It's hard to make friends organically. And I think sport can be a great catalyst for a lot of relationships.
Dr. Greta:Correct. I mean, that's one of the big things. We know that from a research. The research tells us that integration right, is a big part of it, because someone can amazing, and I've seen this to be the case it can be an amazing ball striker, a putter or a golfer the skills, but particularly with the women without a network, a community. The clubs are sitting in the garage or in the closet way more often than we'd like, because the community is what really brings things together. Yeah makes it what it is. That's kind of how we began the conversation, right. When we have an opportunity to get out there and meet people and make golf friends, that's what makes golf super awesome. It really doesn't matter how well developed your skill set is, right? I mean, good golfers, season golfers, lower scoring golfers, we can all play together again. That's what makes it such an amazing sport. Unofficially, and even at a competitive level, we can all play together. The handicap index and that type of thing. So it's just a great sport and you all Kotari are doing amazing things. I am so looking forward to seeing all of what Koji is going to do and contribute to the game, to the world of sport, the game of golf pickleball and all the other things in 2023. So are there any thank you things that you've given us? A few little insights? Do you want to drop any other little goodies for us about?
Larissa:Yeah. So we're launching in January in 2023, so we're still in the early phases. But I think it's a really exciting time for women sports. You can see that at the professional level. And so I think we're big believers at Cody that that's going to trickle down to the amateur and recreational levels for sure. So we really want to be at the forefront of helping women connect through sport. And that's really our whole goal is to just get more women out playing and connecting and finding other women like them to play with. So we're excited to launch in the new year and you feel free to go to active and sign up to join the waitlist as well.
Dr. Greta:It's going to be great folks. I am excited. I'm just telling you going to be excited. Thank you so much for taking the time to come in and chat today. I know that you're doing amazing things and I wanted to share that with the world as Coterie takes off. And you really moved to the forefront of leadership in women's sport because that's really what you're doing. You're taking the bull by the horns and move the needle on this. And so I'm so excited to bear witness to it and play a small role in however I can help and support. But I look forward to having you back.
Larissa:Thank you so much for having me and for being part of the journey with Codery. We're excited to have you part of it.
Dr. Greta:Thanks so much for joining us this week on the Smart Golfer podcast. Make sure you visit our website, drgrettagolf.com, where you can subscribe to the show using your preferred podcast platform so you'll never miss a show. And while you're at it, if you found value in the show, we'd appreciate a rating on that platform. Or if you'd simply like to tell a friend about the show, that could help us out too. And if you like this show, you might want to check out more of our learning programs at academy. Dr. Greta Golf.com.